Gemini Box

I have Directv Stream and I have three Directv set top boxes.  I have the Directv STB prior to Gemini.  (I think it is called Genie)

The “DirecTV Stream box” - meaning the streaming device branded as DirecTV (or before that, as AT&T) hasn’t changed. It didn’t used to have an official name, but its code name (given to the FCC and used during the beta test) was “Osprey” and many of us continue to use that name. DirecTV has apparently developed some new code for that device so it can act as a remote set top box for DirecTV satellite subscribers (effectively replacing the Genie Mini, with the added feature of being a full streaming device for both the DirecTV streaming app and third party apps).  They are calling the device with this code in it “Gemini”.  As far as I know, it should be no different for DirecTV Stream subscribers - it just adds functionality for satellite subscribers. 

Interestingly, on the DirecTV website, they talk about the Gemini in connection with “DirecTV via Satellite” and “DirecTV via Internet”.  But if you got to the DirecTV Stream page (which now takes some work to find, implying it has been deemphasized but not yet deprecated) they don”t show a “DirecTV device” at all - just talking about the various commodity devices.  I wonder if Ospreys are still available to Stream subscribers. Because I’m grandfathered, I have never been able to buy them from DirecTV.  Can someone who is/was able check to see if they are still available?

I looked for the model number of my current STB and the only thing it says in the settings is Model: Directv.  It is the standard Directv STB.

It looks to me that there is no significant advantage to getting a Gemini box.  It appears to provide more-or-less the same functionality.  It seems that Directv wants to push Gemini because it is a common box for both Directv Stream and Directv Satellite.

@Jrandomuser The Osprey boxes are now called Gemini's if you were a customer before April 6th, 2023 they are still available for purchase except for the grandfathered accounts as you know.  Gemini's are also not available for purchase for new customers as they now get one box included and now have to pay a fee for any additional boxes like the satellite customers.  Directv is also beta testing a new device for streaming customers call the Gemini Air.

The model of the set top box that I currently have is C71KW400.  I believe that is the standard Directv STB prior to Gemini.

I just spent almost an hour on the phone with Directv trying to order an additional STB and it’s hopelessly confusing.  Directv now has two different kinds of accounts:

1. Normal Directv Stream
2. Internet (Bring your own device)

The second kind of account is intended for people who provide their own hardware (like a Roku box).

I originally setup my Directv account about a year ago and purchased Directv STB’s at that time.  I discontinued my Directv account for the winter months while I was in Florida and reactivated it a few days ago when I returned to New England.  Now, I am told that my account is now set up as an Internet (Bring your own device) account because I already had Directv STB’s when I reactivated the account and I did not require new hardware.  And, now Directv is telling me that because my account is set up as an “Internet” account, I cannot order an additional Directv STB.

I’m fairly frustrated to find that out after getting bounced around among Directv reps for about an hour.  At this point, I think I have two alternatives:

1. Get Directv to recategorize my account back to a normal Directv Stream account (which it should have been all along), or

2. Just buy an additional Directv STB ON eBay

I don’t need an additional STB right away so I’m going to let this go for now.  Oh, by the way, I think I have confirmed that there is no functional difference between the Gemini box and the box I have.

@chuckcobb3 Contact their twitter support. I've order a box from them before.

This is very confusing.  I found this article on the Directv set top box:

DIRECTV Gemini | Our Best TV Experience At No Extra Cost

The picture seems to show exactly the same box that I already have.  It also mentions that:

"For customers connecting to DIRECTV service via satellite, Gemini cannot receive DIRECTV programming or respond to DVR commands without being connected to the Genie."

Which brings up a question of what is a "Genie"? and how do the two boxes work together?  It also says:

"DIRECTV customers connecting via satellite can continue watching TV over broadband if there’s a temporary signal interruption due to bad weather, so you don’t miss a moment."

That sounds like using a Gemini box with Genie provides a fallback connection to the Internet if you lose the satellite connection.  If that's the case, why do you need the satellite connection? There seems to be a lot of obscure marketing going on here.

Also, why would Directv draw such a hard line between Directv customers who use Directv hardware and "Internet Customers" who bring their own hardware?  It sounds like they are laying the groundwork for charging rental fees for using Directv hardware rather than selling the hardware outright.

@Juniper It isn't clear whether this (adding Mini Genie functionality) was planned from the start, but it seems unlikely it would have taken them over 5 years to add it if it was.  (The original submission of the Osprey to the FCC for certification was in October 2017, and the materials talked of OTT and explicitly said it wouldn't work with existing Genies.  They certainly didn't indicate in those materials or to the beta testers that there was intent to change that, but there's no reason they would have said at the time.)

I'm not sure I believe your assertion that there are 2 SKUs - one with DirecTV Stream firmware and one with DirecTV satellite firmware.  There's certainly room in the flash for both, and the logistics of building, stocking, and managing 2 SKUs would seem to argue against it.  If this is the case, then your comment that you must get one with the correct firmware would be incorrect - while it wouldn't be able to support both services at the same time, the same device would be able to support both services at different times. This seems especially the case as the "Genie version" can also stream DTV content if the satellite connection is down, so it would need that functionality anyway.

If I did it, I'd have the unit at startup try to find and connect to a local Genie - if it could, it would run in Mini Genie mode (and switch to OTT Genie mode if the Genie told it it lost the satellite).  Otherwise it would assume DTVS mode and try to connect back to a DTVS authentication server.

I also don't accept that there is a reason for Ospreys with old (pre-transition to DirecTV) firmware to be bricked.  While developers certainly can do stupid things, I can't really believe they'd hardcode IP addresses rather than a domain names (for updates or for normal streaming), and assuming domain names, it would be easy for DNS redirect records to be set up (and no reason for AT&T not to).  Even if there is a hardcoded address, there must be a way to do the update (probably at an AT&T store) - load via the USB port or a (standalone) PC spoofing the connection.  If I had one of the problematic units and still had access to a proper network analyzer (or a network tap to go along with WireShark) I could try to see what is actually being sent - I'd think some user so equipped might have already done this.

I agree.  I have spent a lot of time on the phone with Directv trying to understand this and I’m almost as confused as I was before.

@chuckcobb3 The apparently have 3 types of subscriptions now (because why not):

• DirecTV via Satellite - Traditional DTV, which will fall back to streaming using Gemini if the satellite become unavailable (if the subscriber has Gemini)
• DirecTV via Internet - Apparently yet another new tack for the streaming service.  Some differences from Stream in terms of supported devices, number of out of home streams, and pricing (though the first 2 may just be errors.)  The web page implies it is an alternate way to get the same service as satellite, but it's not - at least yet - different channel lists and likely other differences.  Has access to Gemini devices, but can still stream on (most?) Stream devices.
• DirecTV Stream  - Existing Stream service with no apparent changes except apparently no access to Osprey/Gemini devices going forward.  Existing devices still work.  For now they are still making this service available - no idea if they'll continue it or eventually drop it, but given that they've made it much harder to find, I assume it'll go away at some point.

It isn't clear from what you say whether you resubscribed as "via Internet" or "Stream", but the former has pricing differences and can get Gemini (Osprey) devices, so I'd guess the latter.

Buying devices on eBay is somewhat problematic - most are probably OK, but you need to make sure that the device you get was correctly disconnected from it's former account and has up to date (or at least relatively up to date) firmware.  I don't know how you can be sure of these things, but you may be safer dealing with an outfit that sells many rather than dealing with an individual.

WRT your more recent questions:

The hardware is the same - Gemini is just a new name.  They have created new software (well, firmware) for the device that lets it talk to a Genie.  A Genie is a DTV satellite receiver - some newer units can support "remote" units (over WiFi) that can act as set top boxes without having to connect to the satellite dish, with the Genie unit doing the heavy lifting.  The remotes up to now were "Genie Mini" units - the Gemini (Osprey with the new firmware) can also fill that role.

And yes, they are apparently letting the Gemini use streaming (probably Stream) as a fallback if (and likely only if) the satellite is unavailable.  As to why still a satellite?  The view back when they first created the streaming service was that the long term plan was for it to replace the satellite service - it dramatically lowers their support costs.  However, they have a lot of existing satellite customers (and existing infrastructure), not everyone has (or can get) adequate internet service to support the number of TV's they want over streaming, Internet service is not always as reliable as satellite (though satellite has its own issues), and there are differences in the content they have available though the 2.  So any transition away from satellite will be slow.

As to why the current goings on?  It's unclear.  I don't see a future for a streaming service that would only work on bespoke devices - there's too much competition in streaming and moving to another service is easy.  They may be looking at creating a bifurcated service - a "normal" streaming service on commodity devices and a (premium?) service offering somewhat different features (and perhaps content) using dedicated devices.  Aside from business model differences (which haven't flown in the past when AT&T tried it, and I don't know why they would now) I don't really see the point of going that route.

@Juniper I have no clue as to the model numbering decisions.  However, in a sense it was always a "client" device (though not a Genie client), so I don't think that is necessarily indicative.  And they've made a massive number of poor naming choices for this service, so I wouldn't be surprised if they had made another.

Is there any indication (in the field) that there are 2 different Gemini devices - a DTV version and a DTVS version?  Like I said, I'd be really surprised if they went that route.  As far as bricking devices and transition problems - they've certainly shown signs over the years of less then completely competent implementation and support decisions, so more isn't a shock.  But there shouldn't be reasons why the problems can't be fixed (even if it's extra work on their part) - although the bar I've seen for bad system design choices is remarkable low, I have a hard time believing it could be that low (and it's very unlikely that AT&T designed the Osprey hardware - it is most likely an Android TV reference design with perhaps minor changes).  Whether they want to be bothered with fixing them (by whatever method) is a different question.

Directv changes (from DirectTV stream to DirecTV via internet) are just a ploy to get more money, they saw they were losing too much money when they were not charging lease fees on their receiver devices on a monthly basis with the streaming only service, compared to selling Geminis to customer outright.

The best thing about the gemini interface is that one can tune in to any channel directly with number pad input, otherwise with (say roku device) its a scroll search to find your channel that you want and a channel logo that is at times too small to see.

Fast forward/rewind also work much better with the Gemini box (Dtv Stream box)---there are also shortcut buttons on the remote for the dvr list, record, previous channel, home, and the guide. With the apps, you have to bring up the home menu to get to the dvr list and guide. 

@pinballtom the Gemini is not a “receiver“ – it’s still a streaming device.  And they’re not charging a lease fee for it - they’re still selling it on the same terms that the “DIRECTV stream device“ was being sold for. So no change there. This is not to say that they may not try to increase their revenue by playing games. The $15 per month “advance receive her fee“ (per subscription, not per device) sort of makes sense for satellite subscribers, but not for “via Internet” subscribers - but they’re apparently still charging it for them. And while the base monthly fees for “via Internet” are mostly lower than for stream, they are now charging a separate sports fee that (more than) makes up for it .   At least so far, the end result isn’t too much different than Stream charges - it seems mostly a way to make “via satellite” and “via Internet” subscriptions the same.  But that could change in the future. 

As far as the Gemini vs commodity streamers - in general it provides a much more ”cable/satellite” user experience.  That’s not just direct channel access and the things that @Ludwick577 mentioned, but the fact that it comes up directly in the service - no dealing with “apps”.  For a large class of users, that’s a big plus.  And there’s voice control.  They are also (currently at least) only offering PPV (actually rentals and sales, I don’t think they have true PPV) on Gemini (Osprey).  Whether all those pluses are worth the cost of a Gemini will depend on the customer.  

I understand and appreciate your comments and input. Still does not make me happy that one has to pay a $15/mo per subscription advanced receiver fee for DTV Stream or DTV via internet service via a Gemini device.  I assume you get one Gemini device free for use with that service, but got to pay for each additional Gemini device you want in your household. Either $120ea or via payment plan. Of course , I assume one can circumvent those additional charges and fees if you go with a different streaming device like Roku or Fire stick or Chromecast + Google TV, but then you do not get the cool extra features and versatility of a Gemini device.

Makes me want to try another stream service like Hulu+live or YouTube TV or Sling TV. I am currently trying out on a trial basis Sling blue, but not liking the interface, it's OK, but the wife hates it and is lost, she rather stick with DirecTV (Sat), as she is use to that format interface, she does not like change or learning new ways of doing things, but it's too dang expensive (satellite) especially if you have multiple receivers or Genies/Geminis. Hulu+live has advantage of getting Disney/ ESPN+ included, but local channels are limited if you do not have access to good antenna signal. YouTubeTV has its +/-s. Hard decision to make. Likely will stick with DirecTv , but drop Satellite and go stream/via internet, and swallow pride and pay the advance receiver fee, and stick with one Gemini for main TV, and use rokus on rest of TVs since we already have them, and just hope wife gets use to the slighty more tedious way to tune to her favorite channels as compared to Gemini's method of navigating the channels and DVR.  Also hate losing our HR44 DVR receiver, where she has over a dozen movies recorded that she tends to watch over and over again DTV Stream only keeps recordings 9 months, instead of forever.